This episode is sponsored by, Circle and Kraken.

Today’s guest is Messari CEO Ryan Selkis.

Find our guest on Twitter: @twobitidiot

Read Crypto Theses for 2023:

“The Breakdown” is written, produced by and features Nathaniel Whittemore aka NLW, with editing by Rob Mitchell and research by Scott Hill. Jared Schwartz is our executive producer and our holiday theme music is "Spike The Eggnog" by Two Dudes. Music behind our sponsors today is “Glasgow” by Falls. Image credit: Andriy Onufriyenko/Getty Images, modified by CoinDesk. Join the discussion at